When do you record an adversary behaviour as undetectable rather than ship a rule that cannot match it?
answer
- the separation test failed, not the rule was hard
- a rule that cannot fire looks like coverage
- no output is not evidence of a quiet estate
- write the fix, its cost and its owner
- bind the verdict to an expiry condition
basics
~20 sWhen no collected field separates the behaviour from normal work on the sensors you have. Write it up as a dated gap with the specific change that would fix it, because a rule that cannot fire still reads as coverage and stops anyone asking again.
solid answer
~50 sThe decision point is the separation test failing, not the rule being hard to write. If every candidate field holds the same value for the adversary and for legitimate use — as the Kerberos ticket encryption type does in a forest whose service accounts were never re-keyed — then no threshold rescues it, and shipping something anyway buys a false sense of coverage that outlives everyone in the room. What you produce instead is a short, dated, owned statement: the behaviour, the records you examined, why each fails to separate, the specific change that would create a separating field, and its cost. Route it to whoever owns that change — usually the identity or platform team, not the SOC. Then take the compensating position you actually can hold, say what residual risk remains, and bind the verdict to the condition that made it true so it expires when the estate changes rather than sitting in a wiki forever.
go deeper
Understand that some behaviours genuinely cannot be seen with the logs an organisation currently collects, and that saying so is a legitimate professional answer rather than an admission of failure.
Be able to explain why a rule that cannot fire is worse than no rule: it never produces output, which is indistinguishable from watching a quiet estate, so the gap looks closed forever.
Show the artefact you would produce — behaviour, records examined, why each field fails to separate, the change that would fix it and its cost — and name the compensating controls you can still apply at other steps of the path.
Own the tradeoff and the conversation around it: what you fund, what you accept, how you keep a register of known gaps that people actually read, and how you hold that position against pressure to close the gap on paper.
## The decision, stated precisely You declare a behaviour undetectable when you have walked the candidate records and found that every field a rule could read holds the same values during the behaviour and during legitimate work. That is a statement about the estate and the sensors as they exist today — not about the technique in general, and not about anybody's skill. The worked case: in a legacy Active Directory forest, service accounts that have never been re-keyed hold no AES key, so the KDC issues RC4-encrypted service tickets to everyone who legitimately uses those services. The encryption-type field, which is the field most rules for this behaviour reach for, therefore separates nothing there. If the accounts also cannot be re-keyed — the applications behind them are old, the owners are gone, and nobody will take the outage — you are looking at a genuine dead end on that field. ## Why shipping the rule anyway is the worse option A rule that cannot match does not merely fail to help. It actively closes the question. It appears in the rule repository with the technique's name attached; it is read as "we handle that"; and the next engineer who considers the same gap finds it already addressed. Nothing about it looks broken, because a detection producing no alerts is indistinguishable from a detection watching a quiet estate — the absence of output is not evidence either way. So the failure is silent and permanent, which is exactly the property you cannot afford in a control you may one day have to defend. ## What you produce instead A written verdict, short enough that people read it, containing: - **The behaviour**, described operationally rather than as a label. - **The records examined** and, for each, the field considered and why its values do not separate. This is the part that makes the document trustworthy later — it shows the work rather than asserting a conclusion. - **The change that would create a separating field.** Usually one of three: re-key or replace the accounts so that the anomalous case becomes anomalous again; deploy a sensor to the surface that currently emits nothing; or turn on a configuration that adds the missing field to a record you already collect. Name which, and what it costs. - **An owner and a date.** The change is nearly always somebody else's — identity, platform, endpoint engineering. A gap with no owner is a complaint. - **The expiry condition.** The verdict is true *because* of a stated fact about the estate. When that fact changes, the verdict is void. Write the condition down, and re-run the exercise on a schedule so the document cannot quietly become wrong in either direction. ## The compensating position Declaring something undetectable is not the same as doing nothing, and an interviewer will push on this. You can usually still change the *cost* of the behaviour or the *consequence* of it succeeding even when you cannot see it happening. For static service-account passwords, that means moving what you can to managed accounts whose passwords rotate automatically, giving the ones you cannot move very long random passwords so an offline attack stops being economical, restricting which accounts hold privilege, and watching for what the adversary must do *after* the step you cannot see — because the payoff of a recovered password is its later use, and use has its own records. Detection failure at one step is not detection failure along the whole path. ## Where a deliberately weak rule is still legitimate There is a defensible version of shipping something: a low-value tripwire that catches only the loudest, laziest execution — bulk enumeration in a burst, a well-known tool run on a monitored endpoint — explicitly labelled as covering that case and not the technique. The distinction is not the rule's quality; it is whether its documented scope matches what it can actually catch. A rule honestly described as "catches bulk harvesting from monitored Windows endpoints only" is useful. The same rule named after the technique is the failure described above. ## The organisational half The hard part is rarely the analysis; it is holding the line when a stakeholder wants the gap closed on paper. Two things help. First, always arrive with the cost of the fix, so the conversation becomes a funded decision rather than a refusal — the answer "we cannot see this until service accounts hold AES keys, here is what that migration costs" is actionable in a way that "it is undetectable" is not. Second, make the record of accepted gaps a normal, unembarrassing artefact reviewed on a cadence. A programme that can name what it cannot see is far more credible than one whose repository claims everything is covered — and it is the only version that survives someone testing the claim.
- Isn't a weak rule still better than nothing?Only if its documented scope matches what it can actually catch. A tripwire labelled "bulk harvesting from monitored Windows endpoints only" is useful. The same rule filed under the technique's name converts an open gap into a closed one, and because a rule that never fires looks exactly like a rule watching a quiet estate, nobody discovers the difference until someone tests it.
- The identity team refuses to re-key the legacy service accounts. What is your position?State the residual risk in terms of the behaviour rather than the technology, propose the cheaper partial moves — managed accounts where possible, very long random passwords where not, trimming the privilege those accounts hold — and keep the gap on the register with an owner and a review date. What you do not do is convert their decision into a detection you know cannot fire, which would hide the risk they accepted.
- How do you stop an "undetectable" verdict from silently going stale?Bind it to the condition that made it true and re-test on a cadence. If the service accounts gain AES keys, or a sensor lands on the surface that currently emits nothing, the verdict is void and the detection becomes buildable. Without that binding you get a wiki page asserting a permanent truth about an estate that changes every quarter.
saying these in an interview costs you the question
- Ships a rule that cannot match so the technique looks covered
- Treats undetectable as a permanent property of the technique
- Declares a gap with no owner, no cost and no date
- Assumes no alerts from a rule means nothing is happening
- Gives up on the whole attack path after one step proves invisible